This is kind of beautiful

"Xyl0c41n3" (i-am-xyl0c41n3)
05/26/2016 at 20:43 • Filed to: JFC, The new David and Goliath

It’s a bit raw in places and refined in others. I think Sam Biddle and AJ Daulerio are unfortunate men to be forced to defend (but for reasons unrelated to this particular issue), yet you can’t deny the freakin’ cojones Nick Denton has. I need to read this again. What are your thoughts?

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DISCUSSION (56)

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 20:48

Fuck Denton. He has no moral high ground on which to rest, and expect to be respected (no matter how right he is). He can go lose himself in his sea of hypocrite despair

Xyl0c41n3 > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
05/26/2016 at 20:51

Care to elaborate as to why?

I'm not snarking. I'm legit interested in why/how he elicits such an immediately violent visceral reaction from you, especially considering you seem to have a pretty high tolerance for the vulgar. (Again, I'm not snarking. I say that about you as a compliment and I respect your opinion, which is why I'm asking).

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 20:51

Please tell me this guy is bankrolling a lawsuit from the Yuabian Puma guy.

“Your honor, do you find this vehicle attractive?”

“No.”

“I rest my case."

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 20:56

Your rights end when you begin to take freedoms from others. The violation of privacy by Gawker is atrocious. They knew what they were doing. They fully deserve any punishment handed to them. Would you think your rights were violated if people held a smear campaign against yourself?

Xyl0c41n3 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
05/26/2016 at 20:57

Oh honey, bless your heart. You’ve got all the buzzwords correct, but your understanding of the arguments and the issues at hand is sadly lacking.

JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:02

I really hate it when insufferable assholes are right.

Xyl0c41n3 > JawzX2, Boost Addict. 1.6t, 2.7tt, 4.2t
05/26/2016 at 21:04

Yeah, Nick Denton is not one of my favorite people, but.... Hot damn! That open letter!

Life and Times of Magoo: The People's Champ > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:09

Most of your readers are pigeon-holed in their jobs and are too busy to play a tiny violin for you.

.....I’m with this guy from the comments. Businesses make decisions, then live or die by the sword they’ve chosen. I do love a good public slug fest though.

Sam > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:09

I think Gawker Media is soon to be a joint venture. Hulkatheilamania Media has a decent ring to it.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:10

Why are you always so condescending to people with different opinions? You keep claiming you want a discussion, but then you reply with shit like this, or fly off the handle completely.

SVTyler > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:11

You know, you could actually engage people in a respectful, honest debate instead of flippantly dismissing them with snark and condescension at the first sign they disagree with you. Especially when you explicitly ask for their thoughts in the first place. This could be an interesting discussion point to talk about amongst ourselves but if we go about it the same way you just did with Jordan there’s absolutely no point of this post.

Xyl0c41n3 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
05/26/2016 at 21:16

Maybe because I find the “personal rights violations” argument incredibly ironic from a user with whom I’ve previously had unproductive conversations with about feminism and racism? He didn’t seem to have any issues with personal rights violations in those instances.

Look at Snap’s comment and my response to him— he left an equally passionate response. The difference in my response to him is that he and I have had awesome discussions in the past. Sometimes they’re knock down, drag out conversations, but at the end of the day, I know Snap is smart and thoughtful even when we most vehemently disagree.

Xyl0c41n3 > SVTyler
05/26/2016 at 21:18

I’m just gonna c/p the same response I left Zoidberg:

Patrick George > TheTurbochargedSquirrel
05/26/2016 at 21:21

God, I wish. That’d be a fucking awesome story for us.

TheBaron2112 > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:25

Nah. Gawker should be raked over the coals.

SVTyler > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:29

That’s not a rebuttal to my comment, that’s a lazy and divisive dismissal of someone whom you’ve in the past disagreed with on an issue completely unrelated to the one at hand, not to mention a double standard for praising someone for insightful replies who’s comment in this thread began with “Fuck Nick Denton”. As I said, there’s no point to this post if you’re going to pick and choose who you’re going to engage and who you’re going to basically say fuck you to (which is exactly what the tone of your reply to Jordan was) based on your own moral yardstick. We don’t learn anything from debates if we don’t honestly and openly talk and just straight up shutting people down, even those with polarizing, differing views from our own, doesn’t do anything for either party.

Xyl0c41n3 > SVTyler
05/26/2016 at 21:31

Lolok.

SVTyler > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:31

Thank you for proving my point and responding to dissent in such an immature manner. This is exactly what I was talking about.

Xyl0c41n3 > SVTyler
05/26/2016 at 21:34

You're most very welcome. Always glad to oblige confirmation bias.

FoilyDoily > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:35

Denton’s articles/responses/whatever often amuse me. I am speech protective as a rule - I may roll my eyes and grumble about it, but I believe in Gawker’s right to be trashy. However, some of the choices that Gawker has made have been outright terrible (you can’t look at existing jurisprudence and say that their outing of Geitner last summer was of any sort of public interest) and I’m not opposed to seeing Denton (and especially Daulerio) sweat a bit while this works its way through appeals.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:35

Next time you have an opinion, you can skip right to this comment and save yourself a lot of trouble.

Xyl0c41n3 > FoilyDoily
05/26/2016 at 21:40

Yeah. Biddle and Daulerio are absolutely horrible people. From Daulerio saying in court that he would have to think about whether or not to publish the hypothetical sex tape of a child (y’know... A RAPE), to Biddle mocking neuro-atypical people (among other things), their ethics are reprehensible. Which is why it’s such an incredible fucking shame that such important press and speech freedoms rest on the consequences of their actions.

I mean, you only have to look at the comments this post is generating to see how easily people are being blinded to the forest by the sight of so many trees.

fire head girl > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:41

nah you're just a dick

Xyl0c41n3 > fire head girl
05/26/2016 at 21:43

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Xyl0c41n3 > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
05/26/2016 at 21:48

I look forward to the inevitable Cigar Lounge post where people complain about what a bitch I am all without ever mentioning my name.

samssun > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:52

There aren’t any “press and speech freedoms” resting on this civil, privacy suit, any more than a website banning someone means the end of the 1st Amendment. Peter Thiel has, however, given millions to organizations promoting journalistic freedoms and fighting laws restricting free speech.

Sam > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 21:52

So basically you have like 4 or 5 people who’s opinions you consider valuable? I’d say that it’s because we are the “big bad misogynist patriarchy" but that'd be a bridge too far.

Xyl0c41n3 > Sam
05/26/2016 at 21:56

Not at all. I respect the opinions of a great many Oppos, including people I disagree with or people whom I don’t particularly like. I have little tolerance, however, for remaining patient with people who have time and again proven either not worth the effort of that patience, or who haven't truly been interested in participating in a constructive dialogue.

His Stigness > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo
05/26/2016 at 21:58

Or don't even reply. How mature.

Xyl0c41n3 > samssun
05/26/2016 at 21:58

I’m a journalist myself. I’ve felt the very real pressure to censor my own reporting and seen numerous colleagues similarly pressured. Those instances happened on MUCH smaller scales than what is currently happening to Gawker Media. Trust me, press freedoms will, in fact, be affected by this situation.

ETA: Throwing a bunch of money into philanthropic organizations that promote only a certain kind of approved journalism is not exactly altruistic.

Jcarr > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 22:10

This brings an interesting question to my mind. Suppose that the worst case scenario happens and freedom of press is significantly impacted. What amount of blame, if any, do you think falls on Gawker? Basically, even if they are technically right, does the repulsiveness of their behavior and the resultant negative public image cause them to be responsible for the impact on freedom of press? Does that make sense?

facw > samssun
05/26/2016 at 22:14

There are definitely freedom of the press issues at stake here. Obviously whether they can publish the excerpts from the tape was an issue (albeit a sleazy one), but regardless of whether they can, the fact the they got hit with a judgement that is approximately 150% of what gawker is worth is a huge issue. If that stands as a reasonable judgement, anything remotely near that line is not getting published, as one bad story could bring down an entire media outlet. It’s a huge chilling effect.

Sam > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 22:23

Here’s the thing though - a broken watch is right twice a day (there is certainly a better analogy for this). I feel you should take these things on a case by case basis, instead of blacklisting people when you disagree. Read their argument, and if it’s stupid bullshit, call it stupid bullshit. If it’s a legitimate argument (which Jordan’s was, even if you have butt heads in the past), then it would be reasonable to continue the debate. And if someone is a straight up troll, I know you already know how to take care of that. :)

DasWauto > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 22:24

If you don’t want to discuss things with certain people, use the dismiss button. That’s what it’s there for.

The sort of condescending passive aggressiveness in your initial reply to Jordan and the thread that followed just serve to stir shit, bait and incite rage and is just decidedly not being excellent to others.

Xyl0c41n3 > DasWauto
05/26/2016 at 22:30

Kinja'd!!!

casanil > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 22:46

beautifully quoted. Well done.

Xyl0c41n3 > Jcarr
05/26/2016 at 22:59

Nah, I get what you’re trying to say. I have trouble reconciling it myself, to some degree. Biddle and Daulerio are so awful that, if this thing results in quickly identifiable adverse effects on press freedoms, the temptation to blame them for those consequences will be hard to ignore.

Though their actions have served as a catalyst for this particular situation, in truth, press freedoms have been eroding for quite some time.

Just take a look at what happened in Ferguson during the summer of 2014. Well respected national media figures Wesley Lowery and Ryan Reilly were both arrested while covering the Mike Brown protests. Ultimately, approximately a dozen journalists from across the globe, including a Breitbart reporter and several journalists from Germany, were arrested while attempting to provide coverage of the protests.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/19/us/…

But there were more than just baseless arrests of journalists during Ferguson. FAA no-fly zones were erected over Ferguson and the surrounding area within the first week of protests to all but law enforcement aircraft. Media outlets who had air reporting resources were prohibited from providing aerial coverage. Road blocks were also established on the roads leading in and out of the city which further restricted press access.

Similar press restrictions occurred in Baltimore, Cleveland, New York City and other places where BLM protests cropped up.

But it’s not just the coverage of activist events where press coverage is being suppressed. Police departments and municipalities across the country are increasingly trying to regulate or restrict photography, which has long been protected under the first amendment. In some places it is now illegal to photograph or record police officers while they conduct their duties, even if those duties are being carried out on public property and even though police officers are public servants with few rights to privacy while on duty.

I mean, there is so much more going on around the country. Will Gawker Media’s potential demise spell immediate negative ramifications for the media industry as a whole? No. It’s unlikely. Or at least not in as visible a way as some people might think. But it will definitely have a chilling effect on the media in the future.

One of the reasons journalists in this country have been able to produce such spectacular reporting that has done everything from exposing corrupt politicians, to shining sunlight on less than ethical corporations, to addressing criminal justice system wrongs, to so much more, is because we have historically had the Constitution and the courts on our side. Those two entities have served as a check, bolstering the media’s mission to serve as the voice of the public in the face of sometimes intense and implacable opposition.

Yeah, media companies get sued all the time: for defamation, libel, slander, etc. We are regularly challenged on the veracity and validity of our claims for materials requested via the Freedom of Information Act (don’t even get me started on THAT, especially here in Texas), but by and large, we have been able to withstand and face those press challenges because we have known that, no matter how big and scary the bully, the interests of the press and of the public would supersede those who would aim to suppress speech. But now? Well, apparently, pockets that are deeply enough lined CAN impact how we work. THAT is a very sobering and scary thought.

Anyway, apologies if some of this doesn’t make sense. I’m typing this on my phone.

FoilyDoily > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 23:05

Related to this point - and only briefly because I’m supposed to be studying - NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton called filming the police (something that is constitutionally protected in public spaces in plain sight) an “epidemic.” I found that particularly disturbing.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Sam
05/26/2016 at 23:11

Sadly, I have but one star to bestow...

Xyl0c41n3 > Sam
05/26/2016 at 23:17

What makes you think I haven’t done exactly that? Shit, just ask Hammerhead Fistpunch about some of the incredibly caustic conversations we’ve had in the past. I’d pretty much given up hope on ever having a decent comment exchange with him. Even if his list of favorite people was 1,000 people long, I doubt I’d be anywhere on it. And I’m sure he probably thinks he wouldn’t make it on my 1,000-person-long list of favorite people, yet even he and I have had some cordial (and even informative) interactions recently.

The same is true of others here. I don’t necessarily “blacklist” people, but at the same time, I'm also not interested in wasting time and energy where the effort will be for nought. You've gotta give respect to get it, y'know? And I ain't gonna give it when it's proven that it's useless.

Jcarr > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 23:21

Definitely makes sense. Your thumbs must be aching ;)

LongbowMkII > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
05/26/2016 at 23:50

They fully deserve any reasonable punishment handed to them. 140 million or whatever is unreasonable.

Your boy, BJR > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 23:55

Theil and Denton should just fuck and get it over with.

LongbowMkII > Xyl0c41n3
05/26/2016 at 23:59

Generally I hate slippery slope arguments, but this would clearly be a bad legal precedent to set. This legal procedure won’t just be applied to the assholes of the world it could be applied to every media outlet. Did that local paper expose a corporation to billions of dollars in risk? Let's spend a few million to have court cases from everyone with an axe to grind and make that problem go away.

Xyl0c41n3 > Your boy, BJR
05/27/2016 at 00:02

Because clearly that’s what’s going on here. Just a whole bunch of repressed gay sexual tension.

*rolls eyes*

Your boy, BJR > Xyl0c41n3
05/27/2016 at 00:05

Oh it’s not repressed at all. It’s the best bum fight I’ve seen in years. (No pun intended) But they’re clearly both madly in love, what, with Denton outing Theil and Theil spending 10 years cooking up a plan to get Denton’s attention. I'm not even kidding, I genuinely think the solution to all this is them fucking.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Your boy, BJR
05/27/2016 at 00:11

Then does Jezebel expose that sex tape?

Imperator Furiosa > FoilyDoily
05/27/2016 at 00:12

Bill Bratton says a great many things that I find best to ignore completely. He is atrocious.

Your boy, BJR > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras
05/27/2016 at 00:15

No I do. But I'll cut and run. They ask me to take that shit down, I'll cash in the clicks I have and take that shit down. I know to cash out when I'm up, and not be a greedy fucker.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Your boy, BJR
05/27/2016 at 00:17

You could buy all the taylor ham youd ever want

Your boy, BJR > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras
05/27/2016 at 00:18

Pork roll.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Your boy, BJR
05/27/2016 at 00:18

Whichever

Your boy, BJR > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras
05/27/2016 at 00:19

Glad I didn’t have to use this:

Kinja'd!!!

BecauseoftheImplication > FoilyDoily
05/27/2016 at 01:26

Yeah I spent the whole article rolling my eyes at Denton’s grandiose posturing. Like, I think writing and the press are important, but Denton seems to think that Gawker are akin to godslayers. This in particular got my goat:

“I thought we had all moved on, not realizing that, for someone who aspires to immortality, nine years may not be such a long time as it seems to most of us.”

Because a) you don’t get to decide how long someone you outed gets to be mad about that, and the fact that you have moved on from suffering no penalties at all means very little, and b) I feel like the “someone who aspires to immortality” dig resonates way more with the inflated ego of the guy who writes stuff like this.

casanil > Xyl0c41n3
05/27/2016 at 02:31

Seriously; I came back just for another chuckle.

Mercedes Streeter > Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras
05/27/2016 at 08:00

Nah, Screengrabber lol.